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Marginalia: Frans de Waal

This episode of Marginalia originally aired on July 7, 2016. Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are? was released in paperback on April 4, 2017.


This episode features a conversation I had recently with Dr. Frans de Waal, a Dutch primatologist and ethologist.
You might recognize him as one of Time magazine’s 100 Most Influential People. Or maybe you’ve watched one of his TED Talks.
I caught up with him in Atlanta, where he’s the C.H. Candler Professor in Emory University’s Psychology Department and director of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center. We visited about his most recent book--Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are?--which explores methods, experiments, and tests used to measure animal intelligence.
Here’s our conversation.  

And if you're looking for the on-air commentary, here it is:


Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are? by Frans de Waal was published by W.W. Norton & Company.

Marginalia was produced at KMUW - Wichita. Discover new episodes at kmuw.org or through iTunes.

Editor: LuAnne Stephens
Engineer: Jon Cyphers
Producer: Beth Golay

Beth Golay is KMUW's Director of Marketing and Digital Content. She is the host of the KMUW podcast Marginalia and co-host with Suzanne Perez of the Books & Whatnot podcast. You can find her on Wichita Transit in conversation with other riders for En Route, a monthly segment on KMUW's weekly news program The Range.