LEILA FADEL, HOST:
That letter Emily mentioned is quite extraordinary because it's signed by officials who once led Israel's security agencies - the former director of the Mossad, the Israeli security agency Shin Bet, the former deputy chief of staff of the IDF and the former commissioner of Israel's civilian police force. They all say it is their, quote, "professional judgment that Hamas no longer poses a strategic threat to Israel." And they are calling on President Trump to pressure Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, to, quote, "end the war, return the hostages, stop the suffering."
Among the hundreds of officials who signed the letter is Amos Yadlin. He's a retired major general in the Israeli Defense Force and the former head of Israel's Defense Intelligence Directorate, and he is with me now. Good morning, and thank you for being on the program.
AMOS YADLIN: Good morning. And just to make it clear, I haven't signed any letter to the - President Trump.
FADEL: Oh, you are not...
YADLIN: OK?
FADEL: ...A signatory to this letter.
YADLIN: Yes, and I have made it very clear to - last night when we prepared this interview.
FADEL: Well, thank you...
YADLIN: However...
FADEL: ...For correcting the record there. Continue.
YADLIN: However, I'm part of the ex-heads of security agencies like the Mossad, Shin Bet, Aman - the Military Intelligence, which I commanded from 2005 to 2010 - and chief of staff and heads of police who are calling to end the war.
FADEL: That call - why put that call out publicly now? What is the urgency in this moment, and what do you want to see happen?
YADLIN: I think that after 22 months of war in Gaza, everybody can see that you cannot achieve the two goals that our government put forward. And I support - I'm supporting the two goals - to dismantle Hamas, the terror organization that control Gaza, and to bring back the hostages.
FADEL: Now...
YADLIN: Unfortunately, you cannot do it simultaneously. And what we are recommending is first to end the war. This is something that Prime Minister Netanyahu refused to put on the table for negotiation. End the war for all the hostages that Hamas is starving to death and torture them and keep them in tunnels for 667 days up to today. And we are calling to end the war and to deal with Hamas later on in a political process.
FADEL: I want to ask about that. I mean, is there anything to be achieved militarily? I mean, the prime minister is now talking about expanding the war. Part of the far right in the coalition is actually talking about annexing Gaza. Is there anything to be achieved militarily at this moment by expanding the war? And what does that mean for the hostages and for Palestinians in Gaza?
YADLIN: Let's make it clear. Annexation of Gaza is not in the goals of the war. It's maybe on the agenda of the right-wingers, maybe of some elements in the Likud party. It's not in the official goals of the war. And, yes, Hamas was not destroyed totally. It was destroyed as a military force, as division of terrorists that invaded Israel on 7 October, 2023, killing 900 civilians, raping women, killing babies, burn them. This is the terror organization that we want to root out from Gaza. But if you do it - and we can do it - you will kill the hostages, and you will not achieve the goal of bringing them back. So what we are saying, even though you can destroy Hamas by complete the military move, which is not the political move of annexation, which is not - nobody support it in Israel but a very small group of right-wingers - this will kill the hostages.
FADEL: Can I ask - how much does the way the war is being prosecuted factor into your public call? We've heard people like former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert accusing the Israeli government of war crimes in Gaza. Two of Israel's top human rights groups have concluded it's a genocide, something Israel vehemently denies. Does that factor into this call at all? We have a few seconds left.
YADLIN: Yeah, it is a part of our call because we think that the war, in 8 of October, 2023, was the most just war in the world. And after 22 months, it is not anymore as just as it was. However, we object Prime Minister Olmert saying that war crimes are executed, and genocide is nonsense. Genocide is what happened to the Jewish people, that 60% of them were killed, or to the Armenians, that 50% of them were killed. Nobody intend to kill Gazans. Those who responsible for the civilian, innocent people in Gaza is Hamas, who's using them as a human shield, who is putting his military positions under hospitals, under schools, and use and doesn't care about his own population, because Hamas...
FADEL: But does the Israeli military hold any responsibility for the killing of Palestinian civilians, for the starvation currently happening in Gaza?
YADLIN: It's all about Hamas because Israelis are fighting according to the international law. There is no more civilians killed in a ratio to the terrorist than the U.S. have done in Mosul in Iraq when they fought ISIS, or in Raqqa when they fought ISIS as well. And I'm not speaking about World War II, what happened in Dresden or in Hiroshima. Israelis are fighting according to the international law. Unfortunately, it's a war. It's an ugly war. It's an enemy that use his own population to protect his own terrorist. And I'm not with anybody who says that Israel is intentionally killing civilians.
FADEL: Can I ask...
YADLIN: This is a blood label.
FADEL: Can I ask, for the few seconds we have left - when you talk about dealing with Hamas later in a political solution, what do you see that as?
YADLIN: I think that the total victory that Prime Minister Netanyahu is looking for is unachievable. There is no absolute victory since 1945. You need to drop a nuclear bomb to reach absolute victory. We propose in my group, which called MIND Israel, a four-pillar plan.
FADEL: Amos Yadlin is the former head of Israel's Defense Intelligence, as well as the president and founder of MIND Israel. We asked the Israeli government for a response to the demand by former defense officials to end the war, and we have not heard back.
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