MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
An international conference to address the growing environmental problems affecting the world's oceans opened in France on Monday without U.S. federal scientists in attendance. But former U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is there at the third United Nations Ocean Conference held in Nice, and he's with us now to tell us about what the conference is trying to accomplish. Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for joining us.
JOHN KERRY: Well, I'm glad to be with you, Michel.
MARTIN: I'm going to mention you served as secretary of state in the Obama administration. You were also special envoy for climate in the Biden administration. So you have a long-standing interest in this subject. So I was going to ask you, what is your role at this conference? I take it you're not representing the Trump administration.
KERRY: No, I'm not representing the administration, obviously. I'm here for myself, given my long interest, but especially, I'm here because I work with a number groups deeply concerned about the oceans and about the climate crisis, such as Oceans 5 and Pew Foundation and others.
MARTIN: So one of the reasons that this is an international conference that there are people coming from all over the world to participate in these kinds of conversations is that, you know, two-thirds of the oceans are - is in international waters. So that means, I guess, that nobody is really in charge. How is a conference like this deal with that? What are the discussions around how that should be addressed?
KERRY: Well, the discussions are plentiful, and they are very focused on the implementation of the treaty that we worked on and passed - what? - about a year ago, I guess, it is. It's called the Biodiversity Beyond Your National Jurisdiction (ph). So we had a huge amount of the ocean, as you just mentioned, that's like the wild west. You do whatever you want. There are ships out there operating illegally in terms of fishing. You have narcotics smuggling, gun smuggling, human trafficking. You have all kinds of impacts, and we have no agreement, until now, somewhat, under the possibilities of the BBJN, which it's called, or some call it the High Seas Treaty. There have been many major announcements by leaders of countries. So this movement is taking hold all around the world.
MARTIN: On the other hand, the United States, as I mentioned, is not present, at least in terms of its federal scientists. I mean, I'm talking about agencies like NASA and NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. It's my understanding that scientists from these agencies weren't even allowed to attend. Although American individuals like yourself, private institutions and universities, you know, are there. How significant is that? Are people worried about that?
KERRY: Yes, people are very worried about it because the United States has been traditionally a great leader on these issues. And because of our economic strength and our reach in the world, we've been traditionally a very important player internationally, and helping to guide good policy.
MARTIN: You also, in addition to being a diplomat, have a background in elective politics. You are a senator from Massachusetts. So given that you sort of do understand the politics of it, how realistic is it for there to be an advance in achieving consensus if the U.S., which is such an important economic and scientific player, is not participating? I mean, how realistic is that?
KERRY: Other people have scientists. Other people have interested leadership in politics. And those folks are taking advantage of the absence of the United States to press their case. China, among them, by the way.
MARTIN: China has an official delegation there?
KERRY: There is a Chinese presence here, and people are talking about the way China is reaching out to them and telling them, well, now that the United States isn't involved, we're here. We're steady. You can count on us. We'll be there. I mean, that chatter is definitely going on here at this conference. And I really think that one of the biggest contradictions is I know President Trump wants to compete globally, he wants America to do well and even be No. 1, and he wants China, particularly, to feel a fierce competition. But if you pull out of the multilateral initiative, if you're not there and you pull out of the Paris Agreement and you walk away from the battleground, so to speak, you're just turning it over to China and saying, go at it. Have a good time. And right now, they're feeling very well-positioned and quite happy with the situation.
MARTIN: That is the former U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, speaking to us from the United Nations Ocean Conference being held in Nice this year. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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