AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
For decades, Sean Combs was a music mogul who made hip-hop dreams come true. But a former employee testified in his criminal trial last week that working for him was more like a nightmare. Capricorn Clark detailed being subjected to shocking, violent behavior during her time as an employee of Sean Combs. NPR Music's Rodney Carmichael is here to talk about how testimony like Clark's is reshaping Combs' legacy. And a quick warning that this conversation contains several mentions of various types of assault.
So, Rodney, good to have you here.
RODNEY CARMICHAEL, BYLINE: Hey, Ayesha. How you doing?
RASCOE: So before the accusations in this trial came out, Sean Combs was massively successful. What did we know or think we knew about him?
CARMICHAEL: Well, Sean Combs - he's always been the face of his own brand. You know, he's the music executive constantly seen and heard, all in the videos, all on the record. But more than any particular artist or product, he was essentially selling himself as the conduit to stardom and success. And nowhere was this truer than in his reality TV era. He produced and starred in a couple of VH1 shows. "Making The Band" was one. And the one that really capitalized on this idea of Combs being not just a star-maker but a kingmaker in the business world was "I Want To Work For Diddy."
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "I WANT TO WORK FOR DIDDY")
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: Working for Diddy would just open up the entire world for me.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: I want to see if I'm tough enough, if I'm strong enough.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: How far I can really push myself if I really want something.
CARMICHAEL: Now, this was a Trump-style show, kind of like "The Apprentice," with contestants competing as interns for Combs. And the one who impressed him the most was promised a real job working for him.
RASCOE: Back then, didn't we know him to be a really demanding boss?
CARMICHAEL: Definitely. I mean, he portrayed himself as someone who expected hard work and hustle and rewarded those willing to go the extra mile. But there was definitely a sense that he could be controlling and manipulative, and, you know, some of the things that he expected you to do were often demeaning. One incident that lives in infamy - even within the outrageous framework of reality TV - is the one time he demanded the cast members of "Making The Band" to walk across the Brooklyn Bridge from Manhattan just to buy him a slice of cheesecake.
RASCOE: The charges against Sean Combs are very serious in comparison, though. They're not just, you know, making someone walk to get cheesecake. They include racketeering conspiracy and sexual trafficking. He's pleaded not guilty to all these charges, but we've heard testimony this week from former employees that paint a very dark picture. Tell us about Capricorn Clark's day on the witness stand.
CARMICHAEL: Well, before she started working for Combs, she was actually friends with him. But on her first day on the job, Combs threatened her life when he found out that she formerly worked for his rival, Death Row Records co-founder Suge Knight. And later, when some diamond jewelry Combs had out on loan went missing, one of Combs' bodyguards took Clark to an abandoned building and forced her to repeatedly take polygraph tests for five days straight. She said she was petrified, especially after being told that if she failed to pass the test, she'd wind up in the East River. Now, her most shocking recollection on the witness stand was being kidnapped at gunpoint by Combs, while he was in a fit of jealous rage over his off-and-on girlfriend Cassie Ventura dating the rapper Kid Cudi.
RASCOE: I mean, this job - it sounds like it was marked by just terror. What did Clark say about what it was like day to day?
CARMICHAEL: Clark described working for Combs as pretty much a nonstop grind. I mean, she testified that she never got more than four hours of sleep, two on a bad night. She suffered stress-induced hair loss. Her salary was $65,000 at the time. And when she raised the issue of overtime, the head of HR presented Combs with a document that said Clark was owed $80,000, and Combs responded by ripping up the paper.
Nothing was off limits in her job. She was responsible for setting up hotel rooms with baby oil and lubricant for Combs, even being asked to procure illegal drugs from ecstasy to cocaine. And other former employees took the stand with accounts that were similar or worse. Another form of personal assistant testified this week that she had been raped by Combs.
RASCOE: These accusations are horrific, but I understand that some of the people who testified also expressed, like, some conflicted feelings about Combs. And despite what they say that he did, they say they still have some level of admiration for him.
CARMICHAEL: Yeah. Well, one of the things that's happening in this trial is basically a total reframing of the public perception that we've had of Combs. I mean, we're hearing about events that coincide with an era when, you know, he had tight control of his image. And his success - it was a point of pride for a lot of people. Now, all of a sudden, we're hearing from people on the witness stand who suffered terrible abuse at his hands. But for them, in some ways, both things are true. And to an extent, they still identify with his success.
Capricorn Clark, for example - she said she worked hard for him and learned a lot from him. Now, she admitted her feelings about their working relationship were complicated and talked about him breaking the glass ceiling for Black people in the business world. But on cross-examination, the defense asked her why she would stay or often return despite such horrible experiences. And Clark stated, at this level of business, he holds all the power related to me.
RASCOE: That's NPR Music's Rodney Carmichael. Thank you so much for joining us.
CARMICHAEL: Thanks, Ayesha. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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